Initiative and Response in Dating

threw you the obvious and you flew, with it on your back, a name in your recollection,
thrown down among a million same. difficult not to feel a little bit disappointed ,
and passed over, when i've looked right through
to see you oblivious and you don't see me
From the song "3 Libras" from the Group "A Perfect Circle"

I use this idea a lot because I like the idea of it.  Maybe it is my old fashioned sense of a guy stepping out to "get to know" and then "invite" a woman for an evening out or a day activity.  It seems so simple and yet it is very complicated or can get complicated real fast.  The complication is the meaning we attached to "approaches"(I also like the idea of "quotes"!) or conversations we have with people and gets us wondering if there is interest there.  This can start the emotional ball rolling and now you are a bit consumed by it.

I was never the "let's have coffee" then I ask you out.  I employed a type of initiative in which I liked to use the military term "Recon" which is short for reconnaissance which is to check out the possible target.  I called dates Ops or operations so I would do some Recon for a possible Op.  In other words, I would talk to the person of interest or take the opportunity in a larger social setting to observe a little but find a way to get myself noticed a bit.  A good question is how do they respond?  Especially in a conversation, do they laugh when you are trying to be funny?, do they respond with questions about you?  Or do they search the room desperately trying to get away from you?  Do they end the time by excusing themselves?   Or do you feel like you could talk to them a long time?  You won't know if they find you at all interesting unless you TALK TO THEM.  Not talk at them like with endless stories.  Just like the Op or date you go on telling endless stories about yourself is not a conversation nor taking an interest in someone. 

Once you have noticed interest, then invite.  The invitation of "what are you doing this weekend?" is a general question.  Invite them to something!  Have a plan, even if it is the tired dinner & a movie, invite them to that.  Keep the surprises for later because THEY DON'T KNOW YOU.  Be specific, then let them decide how they are going to respond.  You may get the "I'm busy" with nothing attached, then you know to back off.  You see, once the invite is out, you have to work through the response.  It may not be what you thought.  A yes can sound like a no, a no can sound like a yes because 1. you caught them off guard 2.  it's hard to say no when you know someone put themselves out there for you 3.  they are excited and don't know what to say.

I just cover some stuff you probably are quite well aware of except the recon-ops thing(is he like 12 years old?...the answer is yes, yes I am!).  The hard part of all this initiative-response is when you don't get the invite that you want and when you don't get the response you were hoping for.  In either case, beware!  Why?  You gotta know ahead of time what your boundaries/reason expectations are to protect yourself.  Protect yourself from whom?  From yourself.  If you don't get a lot of invites or you don't get a lot of good responses to your initiatives(invites) it opens you up to settle for anything.  It wears on a person and self doubt creeps in and now you are spending time with someone who isn't a good fit.

A few things to beware of...
Just about every woman I've talked to lately has complained about men who, even in casual social large group situations, respond to questions posed by the women with endless stories about themselves.  Unfortunately, most men are conditioned in their conversations to talk about themselves.  It's just what we do with each other.  So anyway...So these guys tend to throw an invite the woman's way, the woman goes out, hoping that he would "take more interest in me by asking a SINGLE QUESTION about her" and she gets the same story laden evening that she got in the other situation.  Very rarely will a guy be non-conversational(story telling) then suddenly be a  question-response-counter question-response guy.  Usually you will know up front.  Sure he showed you interest even in his talking and responding to your question and hanging around but is that what you want?  You have to know what works for you and that is ok.  If the guy isn't a good talker up front, I doubt he will be a good talker/communicator later.

From my own experience, I went out with this woman, had a very good time.  She called me like two days later to arrange a casual(she was doing recon!) get together.  I was very encouraged.  So I invited her to another date, she had to check her schedule and get back to me.  So I waited, and I waited and just about gave up on the whole idea because it was very clear as to when I wanted to do the outing and it was getting late.  But I listen to my Mom and Sister who at the time, really, really wanted me to be with someone(be happy) and they knew I was interested in this woman.  So I called.  Yes, I called and she said yes, let's get together.  Even though she said "she would get back to me" she didn't.  I should have stuck to my boundary and let it go because I did end up in relationship with this person, and the hesitation/uncertainty thing was what I got.  She responded to my imitative but not with the certainty of really putting herself in a lot more.  I needed a fuller hearted match like me, but that wasn't what this was.

Invites and responses, questions and answers, so basic yet filled with subtleties that experience and perspective brings.

Shawn
I have experience and perspective, talk to me, I am a Relationship Coach.  http://www.coachingthrough.com/

I Was Blind But Now I am not as Blind as Before

Mrs. Tolliver: I don't understand. You're psychic?
Patrick Jane: No, just paying attention. I used to make a good living pretending to be a psychic. I tell you this because I want you to understand there's no point hiding things from me.

From the TV show "The Mentalist"

 I guess we're all here, then: someone who wants the truth, someone who wants to be right, and us - the idiots in the middle. Cal Lightman, from the TV Show "Lie to Me"

I love those two shows, the Menalist and Lie to Me.  I know why too.  Because I want to be that guy who can figure stuff out by reading people.  Not reading their minds, but reading their intent.  Ever since I started working with young teenagers, then high schoolers then dealing with adult issues in friends and acquaitences, I saw myself as Patrick Jane would say "paying attention" to others and their patterns and words.  Sure I wanted people to think I was smart but more so that I cared about them.  If you are going to try to help people, you need to focus your attention on them. 

Another reason for my focus on reading people was because I was deceived.  Even more so, I was self-deceived.  That's the part that hurt the most.  Anyone can fool anyone sometimes.  Even Cal or Patrick.  My first marriage ended because of my self-deception.  I was blind.  I was blind as to what was really going on in her and in me.  I was afraid of asking and pursuing questions with my former spouse because the answers were not going to feel very good at all.  Certain topics were avoided because I didn't want to "have problems".  I wanted to believe that everything was good.  Which is fine to a point but it gets a little ridiculous after a while.

Avoiding "problems" is one way but to do that you have to be a bit self-focused.  What I mean is in order not to see stuff well around you and in your relationships, you have to be focused on yourself.  In fact, the more focused you are on yourself the less objective you can be.  When everything(or most things) in your mind revolve around yourself like, protecting your insecurities, avoiding fearful situations, or just dwelling your own perspective on the world, it makes it hard to break out of that to see what is really going on.  I can think of two examples one when I married, and one when I single but dating someone.

When I was married before, I was lousy at doing chores and projects around the house and yard.  Why?  Because I felt that I was not very good with tools(still true but not as big as deal) so I avoided it like the plague.  My previous wife, I believed, would have felt better about things if I would of done some things around the house.  So instead of doing a few things to make her happy, I put my insecurity ahead of her wishes.  Eventually, this bred some contempt on her part towards me because I wasn't doing some things that needed to be done.  I couldn't see what it meant to her because I was too focused on covering my lack of ability.  Was it the end of the world?  No, but it was a significant part of the broken relationship.

Later, when I was single for a few years, I started dating someone.  I was too into it from the start.  I tried not to be but my need for "doing a relationship right" outweighed reality.  She had concerns from the start, and was generally uncertain.  That was her right.  I just didn't want to see that.  I was a great boyfriend but that wasn't the point.  You relate to the person you are with, instead of trying to exorcise the ghost of the past.  So, I really worked at the relationship hard but that blinded me to what she was really saying(she was trying to be nice) that there wasn't a future for us.  Of course I took that really hard.  The relationship went way too long and I was the last to know because I was so bent on "making it work".  It just wasn't going to and that is ok.

Hindsight is always 20/20 they say.  At least I have learned a couple of things.  I know that I still don't see as well when I am sure I am right or think I am right.  I know that I don't see as well when I am getting intense and passionate about something.  Just because I feel something strongly doesn't mean I know what I am talking about.  I have learned to step outside of the "shawn show" more often to see people and what they are saying and meaning.  Like Patrick Jane, I just paying attention, to others more than me.

Shawn
I am Relationship Coach, I can help, check out my website http://www.coachingthrough.com/

Not Taking 'Yes' For an Answer

"You say yes, I say no--You say stop and I say go go go, oh no--You say goodbye and I say hello"--from the Song "Hello, Goodbye" by the Beatles from the "Magical Mystery Tour" Album

Communication is difficult almost all the time with anyone.  Sometimes it feels like that Beatles song where you are saying one thing and the other person says the opposite but you both think you are saying and meaning the same thing!  Friend to friend, co-worker to co-worker, spouse to spouse, parent to parent, it doesn't matter the relationship, communication is key. 

Now I have been known for my "Not take No for an answer".   That is the common phrase that says "I am persistent, I will get it done inspite of obstacles, I am pushy, I try to convince people to say yes, especially if I want them to".  People who know me well would say I do that from time to time.  Now I want to turn that on it's head a bit and throw out the idea that when someone says yes, to something don't take that as THE answer.  Many of you probably don't and learned this a long time ago but I am a late bloomer, so bear with me...

I was dating this woman and wanted to "confirm" the relationship as exclusive.  So I brought up the fact that I really liked her, and didn't want to see anyone else, just her.  Her response was yes she felt the same.  Two weeks later she said she was unsure of the relationship.  Now saying "yes" in that situation does not legally bind anyone to anything.  I knew that.  This is where you get so amped up to get a definition of the relationship that anything that sounds like yes is all you want to hear.  Instead of asking more questions and probing for feelings, I jumped at the yes.  Why?  Because I wanted the relationship to happen too much.  My want kept me from asking questions and then assumptions are made then I can't see.  There was indeed hesitation in her explanation of her yes, I just didn't hear it.

Sometimes when you ask your friends or family "how are you?"  They say fine, ok or good.  After you get that answer it is easy to jump to info, gossip, work stuff, etc...  Sometimes people are not good or fine but either...want you ask more specific questions or feel silly or stupid for how they are doing/feeling especially if it the same issue they always end up talking about.  I was meeting with a guy friend of mine.  He was acting uncharacteristicaly edgy, nervous, high strung.  I asked him how he was doing, and he gave me reflexive answer, ok.  His behavior didn't change, still edgy, etc...So I said, "you seem out of sorts, nervous today, why?"  That got him talking and opening up about his work and it's effect on him that day.  I didn't take "yes" as an answer because his behavior clearly said different. 

It is my belief that people want to share their thoughts and feelings but no one is asking them the question or getting past the "smoke screen" of a neutral answer of fine, ok, good.  It is also my belief that people don't like being interrogated either.  Sometimes the people in your life just are not ready to talk right now.  You have to ask yourself the question, do I want to push this or skip it?  Obviously, I believe in pushing it and if you get nothing then back off and revisit the conversation later.  That is easier to do with a spouse because they are right there.  It takes courage, persistence, and intentionality to care for those around you.  Your friends, family and significant other don't want to be drama to you so words like fine, good, and ok deserve another question.  Ask it.

Shawn
I am a Relationship Coach talk to me, shawn@coachingthrough.com